Thermography vs. Mammography

Season 3

, Episode 11

Oct 7, 2022

Thermography vs. Mammography: How they compare and contrast and what you need to know about each regarding early detection of breast cancer.

Thermography Transcription

1 00:00:05,455 –> 00:00:07,791 Welcome to Take Good Care 2 00:00:07,791 –> 00:00:11,161 an endeavor of Peachtree City Obstetric and Gynecology. 3 00:00:11,611 –> 00:00:14,898 Our aim and mission is to serve as a source of vital information 4 00:00:14,898 –> 00:00:19,019 and discussion for women of all ages, races and walks in life. 5 00:00:19,803 –> 00:00:21,621 I’m Dr. Mironda Williams. 6 00:00:21,621 –> 00:00:22,172 I’m Dr. 7 00:00:22,172 –> 00:00:24,924 Deanna Guthrie, and I am Dr. Karen Greene. 8 00:00:25,191 –> 00:00:34,050 Welcome to our show. 9 00:00:35,001 –> 00:00:38,038 For nearly 40 years now, the month of October 10 00:00:38,038 –> 00:00:40,640 has been designated for breast cancer awareness. 11 00:00:41,307 –> 00:00:45,078 And so all over the country, there will be programs and initiatives 12 00:00:45,078 –> 00:00:49,466 really hoping to educate and encourage women, as well as men 13 00:00:49,466 –> 00:00:53,520 to be aware of breast cancer strategies, how to 14 00:00:54,771 –> 00:00:57,557 look out for yourself, your family members and your loved ones. 15 00:00:58,041 –> 00:01:02,278 And for years now, my partners and I have talked 16 00:01:02,278 –> 00:01:07,100 with patients about various breast cancer screening modalities 17 00:01:07,100 –> 00:01:11,604 and what we feel is the best one for early detection. 18 00:01:12,205 –> 00:01:17,010 And over the years, thermography has really become an option that some women 19 00:01:18,361 –> 00:01:20,814 would rather utilize because 20 00:01:20,814 –> 00:01:24,717 of their thinking that it may be less invasive, 21 00:01:25,018 –> 00:01:29,272 not as uncomfortable, decrease in decrease in radiation exposure. 22 00:01:29,906 –> 00:01:32,575 So we thought that this would be a good time for us to give 23 00:01:32,575 –> 00:01:35,628 a little discussion on thermography, 24 00:01:36,513 –> 00:01:40,400 thermography versus mammography, and to talk about 25 00:01:40,400 –> 00:01:44,454 what the differences are with them and why. 26 00:01:44,604 –> 00:01:48,691 The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology still 27 00:01:50,193 –> 00:01:52,045 favors mammography 28 00:01:52,045 –> 00:01:56,783 as the screening standard for breast health and breast cancer. 29 00:01:57,500 –> 00:02:00,804 So on today’s show, we’re going to break that down and offer 30 00:02:00,804 –> 00:02:04,557 some information that we hope will be good for you to utilize. 31 00:02:04,557 –> 00:02:07,610 As you have, you make your own informed decisions 32 00:02:07,944 –> 00:02:11,748 about what you would like to do going forward for your own health care. 33 00:02:12,265 –> 00:02:15,084 And thermography, which is also called thermal 34 00:02:15,768 –> 00:02:18,688 imaging, uses a special camera 35 00:02:18,688 –> 00:02:22,342 to measure the temperature of the skin on the breast surface. 36 00:02:22,909 –> 00:02:26,312 It is a noninvasive test that involves no radiation. 37 00:02:27,263 –> 00:02:29,999 Thermography is based on two ideas 38 00:02:30,617 –> 00:02:34,404 because cancer cells are growing and multiplying very fast. 39 00:02:35,038 –> 00:02:39,559 The theory is that blood flow and metabolism would be higher in an area 40 00:02:40,009 –> 00:02:44,781 where a cancerous tumor may be developing as blood flow and metabolism 41 00:02:44,781 –> 00:02:47,750 increase, the skin temperature goes up is the theory. 42 00:02:49,068 –> 00:02:51,588 Mammography or rather thermography. 43 00:02:51,588 –> 00:02:54,657 Thermography has been available for several decades, 44 00:02:55,291 –> 00:03:00,480 but there is no evidence to show that it is a good screening tool 45 00:03:00,864 –> 00:03:04,200 to detect breast cancer early. 46 00:03:04,851 –> 00:03:07,737 And I think that’s the fact that we really want to drive 47 00:03:08,087 –> 00:03:11,608 home to individuals who are trying to determine 48 00:03:11,841 –> 00:03:15,295 what they want to do for breast cancer screening. 49 00:03:16,129 –> 00:03:21,467 Again, a good screening test for any disease 50 00:03:22,068 –> 00:03:24,137 is should be designed 51 00:03:24,771 –> 00:03:29,726 so that it detects early disease changes 52 00:03:30,109 –> 00:03:33,229 when things can be most treatable. 53 00:03:34,080 –> 00:03:36,499 So again, thermography, 54 00:03:36,950 –> 00:03:39,535 though it has been around for several decades, 55 00:03:39,986 –> 00:03:43,139 there has been no evidence that shows 56 00:03:43,373 –> 00:03:46,342 that it is able, as a screening tool 57 00:03:46,859 –> 00:03:50,964 to detect brand breast cancer early. 58 00:03:52,532 –> 00:03:53,750 And again, there was 59 00:03:53,750 –> 00:03:58,021 a recent article that was published by M.D. 60 00:03:58,021 –> 00:04:02,609 Anderson that looked at mammography versus thermography. 61 00:04:02,609 –> 00:04:06,212 And I’m just going to point out some of those some of that information. 62 00:04:07,347 –> 00:04:10,617 And again, regular screening mammogram is used to detect 63 00:04:11,000 –> 00:04:15,088 breast cancer early when it is easiest 64 00:04:15,088 –> 00:04:18,741 to treat successfully. 65 00:04:19,259 –> 00:04:20,777 Patients at M.D. 66 00:04:20,777 –> 00:04:23,246 Anderson in the Houston location 67 00:04:23,896 –> 00:04:27,867 sometimes are given information about the differences between these two tests. 68 00:04:28,518 –> 00:04:30,954 But it is their recommendation, and the only thing 69 00:04:30,954 –> 00:04:34,107 they offer as a screening test for mammography 70 00:04:34,440 –> 00:04:38,361 I’m sorry, is a screening test for breast cancer to be mammography. 71 00:04:39,178 –> 00:04:42,231 Sometimes, depending on a woman’s 72 00:04:42,231 –> 00:04:46,469 study, they may end up getting a 3D mammogram or Thomas synthesis. 73 00:04:47,337 –> 00:04:48,538 And again, now Dr. 74 00:04:48,538 –> 00:04:50,873 Guthrie is going to talk about 75 00:04:51,774 –> 00:04:54,143 mammography in particular and talk 76 00:04:54,143 –> 00:04:58,231 and give us information about why it is such a good screening tool. 77 00:04:58,231 –> 00:05:02,268 Because, again, what we’re trying to emphasize during the month of October 78 00:05:02,518 –> 00:05:06,539 is breast cancer awareness and screening through mammography. 79 00:05:06,739 –> 00:05:08,791 Dr. Guthrie, thank you. Dr. Williams. 80 00:05:08,791 –> 00:05:09,559 So as Dr. 81 00:05:09,559 –> 00:05:13,830 Williams mentioned before, a screening test is some is a test 82 00:05:13,830 –> 00:05:18,301 that you do when you’re not suspecting any disease, whatever you’re looking for. 83 00:05:18,718 –> 00:05:20,253 But it is a good test that can, 84 00:05:20,253 –> 00:05:23,423 she said, pick up early changes that are most treatable. 85 00:05:24,240 –> 00:05:28,378 So a mammogram, it’s a low dose stress the ward low dose 86 00:05:28,378 –> 00:05:34,734 X-ray picture of the breasts that aids in detection of breast diseases or lesions. 87 00:05:34,851 –> 00:05:37,320 Not everything in the breast is going to be cancer. 88 00:05:38,454 –> 00:05:40,473 So there are things like calcifications. 89 00:05:40,473 –> 00:05:41,657 You can have cysts. 90 00:05:41,657 –> 00:05:46,262 You can have little firm tumors that are not cancerous but benign. 91 00:05:46,796 –> 00:05:49,782 Just to kind of describe the process for women who have not had a mammogram, 92 00:05:49,799 –> 00:05:55,104 your you disrobe from the waist up and you have a gown on that opens in the front. 93 00:05:55,521 –> 00:05:58,891 And the mammography her will place your breasts on a platform. 94 00:05:59,942 –> 00:06:05,031 And then another plate comes down slowly to compress your breast 95 00:06:05,248 –> 00:06:06,265 because compressing 96 00:06:06,265 –> 00:06:10,019 the breast tissue gives a better picture so they can see lesions. 97 00:06:11,237 –> 00:06:14,190 There’s a misconception that they just slam your breasts into something. 98 00:06:14,957 –> 00:06:16,893 They’ve had mammograms. 99 00:06:16,893 –> 00:06:18,861 That’s about what happens 100 00:06:19,762 –> 00:06:20,930 during a mammogram. 101 00:06:20,930 –> 00:06:23,249 Also, you should not wear any deodorant. 102 00:06:23,249 –> 00:06:27,153 And the reason for that is, is that deodorants have metallic substances 103 00:06:27,153 –> 00:06:27,804 in them. 104 00:06:27,804 –> 00:06:30,440 And aluminum is the most common metal in it. 105 00:06:30,807 –> 00:06:35,128 And when you do a mammogram, if any of it gets anywhere on your breast, 106 00:06:35,728 –> 00:06:39,482 the metal in the in the deodorant will pick up 107 00:06:39,499 –> 00:06:42,351 as if you have calcifications in your breast, 108 00:06:42,351 –> 00:06:45,421 which then confuses the issue, which then makes them 109 00:06:45,421 –> 00:06:47,840 have to do more workup when there’s really nothing wrong. 110 00:06:47,990 –> 00:06:48,624 So that’s why 111 00:06:48,624 –> 00:06:52,428 they will ask you to remove any deodorant before you have a mammogram done. 112 00:06:53,996 –> 00:06:55,832 When you do a mammogram, the screening. 113 00:06:55,832 –> 00:06:57,567 So there are two types of mammograms. 114 00:06:57,567 –> 00:06:59,335 There’s a screening mammogram. 115 00:06:59,335 –> 00:07:01,037 That’s the test that’s done. 116 00:07:01,037 –> 00:07:02,422 Again, you’re just coming in. 117 00:07:02,422 –> 00:07:04,040 Nothing is suspected. 118 00:07:04,040 –> 00:07:06,843 And when you do a screening mammogram, they take two. 119 00:07:07,577 –> 00:07:10,346 Each breast gets two images from different angles. 120 00:07:10,346 –> 00:07:13,099 And that’s the regular screening mammogram. 121 00:07:13,099 –> 00:07:17,253 Now, if anything is seen on that screening mammogram, 122 00:07:17,253 –> 00:07:21,023 then you elevate up to what’s called a diagnostic mammogram. 123 00:07:21,474 –> 00:07:24,961 And now that area of concern, they’re going to concentrate 124 00:07:24,961 –> 00:07:27,280 and take more views of that area. 125 00:07:28,097 –> 00:07:31,367 So a lot of women will come in for the exam thinking, 126 00:07:31,367 –> 00:07:33,503 oh, it’s time for my yearly. I’m 127 00:07:33,503 –> 00:07:37,023 going to tell them that I felt something and just get my regular mammogram. 128 00:07:37,440 –> 00:07:42,145 That will not be the case if an issue is pointed out that it is. 129 00:07:43,129 –> 00:07:46,182 It behooves us to then investigate that area. 130 00:07:46,199 –> 00:07:50,903 So you cannot have a screening mammogram for an identified problem. 131 00:07:50,903 –> 00:07:55,107 Whether or not you feel something or if something is seen, you do need 132 00:07:55,107 –> 00:07:59,312 and more elevated tests to to find out and to better 133 00:08:00,062 –> 00:08:03,149 analyze the area. 134 00:08:05,518 –> 00:08:06,152 Dr. Williams 135 00:08:06,152 –> 00:08:09,138 also mentioned technology is getting better and better. 136 00:08:09,622 –> 00:08:12,291 When we first had mammograms, we actually like took pictures 137 00:08:12,291 –> 00:08:15,261 like you used to do on film, like you used to have your Polaroid camera. 138 00:08:15,561 –> 00:08:19,949 So whenever you had a mammogram done, they stored all your images on film 139 00:08:19,949 –> 00:08:21,150 and it was very bulky. 140 00:08:21,150 –> 00:08:23,953 You had to find a place to store them and things like that. 141 00:08:23,970 –> 00:08:28,558 But as technology has developed, we now have digital mammography. 142 00:08:30,092 –> 00:08:33,112 The mammogram is performed the same way. 143 00:08:33,112 –> 00:08:35,481 It has nothing to do with how the mammogram is performed. 144 00:08:35,481 –> 00:08:39,869 So you still come in, you still get your breast compressed and pictures taken, 145 00:08:40,136 –> 00:08:44,941 but now we can manipulate the pictures to better 146 00:08:47,043 –> 00:08:49,378 diagnose problems so they can enhance the picture. 147 00:08:49,378 –> 00:08:50,096 If there’s a spot 148 00:08:50,096 –> 00:08:53,883 that looks kind of shadowy, they can, just like you could do on your iPhone, 149 00:08:53,883 –> 00:08:56,569 you can change the picture so you can see it better. 150 00:08:56,569 –> 00:08:58,037 You can make it lighter in the background 151 00:08:58,037 –> 00:09:02,692 so that they can actually do better as far as diagnosing any lesion. 152 00:09:02,708 –> 00:09:05,545 So it’s not changing how a mammogram is done. 153 00:09:05,811 –> 00:09:11,667 It’s changing how the images are developed and they can be stored as data. 154 00:09:11,667 –> 00:09:14,487 So again, much less bulk. 155 00:09:14,487 –> 00:09:16,289 So there are no films to carry around. 156 00:09:16,289 –> 00:09:18,507 You used to have to go get your films and carried around. 157 00:09:18,741 –> 00:09:23,095 Now digital film, digital images can be sent electronically 158 00:09:24,180 –> 00:09:27,083 so you don’t have to go pick up your films. 159 00:09:27,083 –> 00:09:31,637 And then an added technology is now 3D mammogram that Dr. 160 00:09:31,637 –> 00:09:33,689 Williams mentioned as tumor synthesis. 161 00:09:34,023 –> 00:09:38,010 And so they’ll take both 2D, which is regular pictures 162 00:09:38,010 –> 00:09:39,712 and 3D images of your breasts. 163 00:09:39,712 –> 00:09:44,567 Again, just a better way of seeing and delineating any lesions 164 00:09:45,718 –> 00:09:48,020 there for classes to your 165 00:09:48,020 –> 00:09:51,591 mammogram or forecast to the results when you have your mammogram done. 166 00:09:51,857 –> 00:09:53,009 If you do your mammogram 167 00:09:53,009 –> 00:09:56,696 and it’s and it’s normal, it’ll read out as a as as a code. 168 00:09:56,846 –> 00:10:00,082 I’m going to just use the word code, code one, and that just means everything. 169 00:10:00,082 –> 00:10:00,566 That’s fine. 170 00:10:00,566 –> 00:10:02,702 You come back in the year, 171 00:10:02,702 –> 00:10:05,271 there’s a code two that’s also normal. 172 00:10:05,271 –> 00:10:07,490 They may see some 173 00:10:07,640 –> 00:10:12,411 fiber cystic changes that are all benign, but again, everything is normal. 174 00:10:12,411 –> 00:10:14,330 You come back in the year 175 00:10:14,330 –> 00:10:18,718 if you do have to have a diagnostic mammogram, if they look at that area 176 00:10:18,918 –> 00:10:22,104 and they think it’s probably normal, they will say that. 177 00:10:22,338 –> 00:10:26,392 But they’ll say just in case, let’s look again in six months 178 00:10:26,392 –> 00:10:28,377 to make sure nothing has changed. 179 00:10:28,377 –> 00:10:30,813 If there was a cyst, it hasn’t gotten any larger. 180 00:10:31,197 –> 00:10:36,802 And so you’ll get a code of code three and it says probably benign. 181 00:10:36,802 –> 00:10:39,271 And you need a short follow up. 182 00:10:39,271 –> 00:10:42,558 When you have that follow up, if everything looks the same and looks 183 00:10:42,558 –> 00:10:45,328 normal, you’ll go back to a class one or two 184 00:10:45,661 –> 00:10:48,147 where you just have your mammograms done every year, 185 00:10:48,864 –> 00:10:51,467 and then there’s class four where something does look suspicious. 186 00:10:51,467 –> 00:10:54,654 And then they do recommend intervention, whether that be a biopsy 187 00:10:54,654 –> 00:10:58,491 or a follow up at the surgeon for for better care. 188 00:10:59,342 –> 00:11:02,428 So that’s kind of like the breakdown of getting your mammograms every year. 189 00:11:02,912 –> 00:11:04,130 And before Dr. 190 00:11:04,130 –> 00:11:07,016 GREENE goes into a discussion, we found an article 191 00:11:07,016 –> 00:11:09,769 about the FDA in thermography versus mammography. 192 00:11:10,202 –> 00:11:14,423 The other thing that I wanted to point out is that there are very stringent 193 00:11:14,423 –> 00:11:18,477 standards for the mammogram machine. Yes. 194 00:11:18,477 –> 00:11:21,714 As well as how mammograms are done. 195 00:11:21,714 –> 00:11:23,966 And for our mammography curves, 196 00:11:23,966 –> 00:11:27,987 we have mammography on site at our Peachtree City Office location. 197 00:11:28,371 –> 00:11:28,821 And Dr. 198 00:11:28,821 –> 00:11:33,809 Guthrie is a physician that helps oversee the management of our imaging area 199 00:11:33,809 –> 00:11:36,829 where we have mammography and pelvic ultrasound available. 200 00:11:37,430 –> 00:11:40,649 And we can confirm 201 00:11:41,333 –> 00:11:43,669 that it is a very involved, 202 00:11:43,669 –> 00:11:49,375 tedious, tedious and stringent process to be certified 203 00:11:49,859 –> 00:11:54,447 their quality standards that have to be met every week 204 00:11:54,830 –> 00:11:59,151 so that we make sure that the machine is functioning properly, 205 00:11:59,402 –> 00:12:03,622 that the images are generated properly, so that the radiologist 206 00:12:03,622 –> 00:12:07,560 who is reading these images is able to see what they need to see. 207 00:12:07,560 –> 00:12:11,280 Because, again, we’re going to keep keep hammering this point home to you 208 00:12:11,597 –> 00:12:14,283 that the whole point of this discussion is that 209 00:12:14,283 –> 00:12:16,919 we’re talking about screening tests. 210 00:12:17,403 –> 00:12:20,089 We want to find something before it is evident, 211 00:12:20,089 –> 00:12:22,491 because that is when we can treat for cure. 212 00:12:23,159 –> 00:12:27,296 Thermography does not detect cancer in early stages. 213 00:12:28,848 –> 00:12:30,533 It does not 214 00:12:30,633 –> 00:12:36,872 also, there are not any standards for quality or effectiveness 215 00:12:37,173 –> 00:12:40,676 that have been determined that can be reproduced. 216 00:12:40,893 –> 00:12:43,012 Time after time after time. 217 00:12:43,979 –> 00:12:46,081 Dr. Greene is going to go a long way 218 00:12:46,315 –> 00:12:49,285 just as a doctor, whereas he’s talked about, in fact, our facility. 219 00:12:49,285 –> 00:12:51,537 We just passed our. Yes. 220 00:12:51,537 –> 00:12:54,140 So it’s like you said, they’re very stringent codes 221 00:12:54,140 –> 00:12:56,759 and things that you do every week. You have to check your machines every week. 222 00:12:56,959 –> 00:12:58,260 There are things that you do every year. 223 00:12:58,260 –> 00:13:00,830 And then there’s a big one that’s every three years. 224 00:13:00,830 –> 00:13:04,733 And just to let you know how detailed it is, they send out a notice 225 00:13:04,733 –> 00:13:09,355 eight months in advance because you have to start taking pictures. 226 00:13:09,355 –> 00:13:13,526 You have to show all along the way in that 6 to 8 month period of time 227 00:13:13,909 –> 00:13:16,862 that your pictures are all consistent. 228 00:13:18,030 –> 00:13:18,798 You have to show that 229 00:13:18,798 –> 00:13:21,717 you are keeping up with maintenance. 230 00:13:22,067 –> 00:13:24,620 You have to show that the level of radiation 231 00:13:25,554 –> 00:13:28,557 that that’s there is not too much, you know. 232 00:13:29,191 –> 00:13:31,710 So it is a very, very stringent process. 233 00:13:32,611 –> 00:13:33,179 And so if 234 00:13:33,179 –> 00:13:36,749 thermography does not have any of that, there is no from each facility. 235 00:13:36,749 –> 00:13:41,270 Facility, you do not know the quality of testing that you’re getting done. 236 00:13:41,754 –> 00:13:44,640 Dr.. Greene And so that’s that’s really the bottom line. 237 00:13:45,174 –> 00:13:48,477 Of course, obviously, we’re supportive of of mammogram, but 238 00:13:48,594 –> 00:13:51,347 it’s not just the fact that we have one in our office 239 00:13:51,597 –> 00:13:54,149 is the fact that we know that it’s regulated. 240 00:13:54,567 –> 00:13:56,902 We know it’s regulated, we know it passes tests. 241 00:13:56,902 –> 00:13:58,554 We know that it’s going to do the best care 242 00:13:58,554 –> 00:14:02,308 for our patients by detecting early disease. 243 00:14:02,641 –> 00:14:06,061 I cannot say that enough that when you detect the disease early, 244 00:14:06,295 –> 00:14:08,180 it’s a greater risk of cure. 245 00:14:08,180 –> 00:14:10,349 One in eight women will develop breast cancer. 246 00:14:10,499 –> 00:14:11,934 That number hasn’t changed. 247 00:14:11,934 –> 00:14:14,119 No matter what we do, that’s going to happen 248 00:14:14,119 –> 00:14:16,639 and most of these women are going to have a family history. 249 00:14:16,939 –> 00:14:20,726 And so saying that, will my breast feel fine and I don’t have any family history. 250 00:14:20,960 –> 00:14:23,245 One in eight women develop breast cancer. 251 00:14:23,245 –> 00:14:24,563 So if you want to do something 252 00:14:24,563 –> 00:14:28,701 that’s going to give you the most chance of surviving potentially a disease 253 00:14:28,968 –> 00:14:31,637 that you didn’t realize you have, you want to do the best tests. 254 00:14:31,921 –> 00:14:35,424 And so the FDA, of course, has to get involved when it comes to things 255 00:14:35,424 –> 00:14:36,709 that may be misleading. 256 00:14:37,910 –> 00:14:39,378 As we said before, 257 00:14:39,378 –> 00:14:42,498 mammogram identifies tissue types with different densities. 258 00:14:42,932 –> 00:14:46,852 Thermography shows patterns of heat on or near the surface of the body. 259 00:14:47,369 –> 00:14:51,123 There is no regulation of how these machines are detecting 260 00:14:51,123 –> 00:14:52,608 these patterns of heat. 261 00:14:52,608 –> 00:14:56,462 And does a pattern of heat develop when there’s an early stage disease? 262 00:14:56,462 –> 00:14:59,181 There is no scientific evidence that that is the case. 263 00:14:59,632 –> 00:15:03,052 And so the FDA in this particular article wanted to remind us that 264 00:15:03,352 –> 00:15:07,489 mammogram, the low dose x ray imaging of the best of the breast 265 00:15:07,706 –> 00:15:11,477 is still the most effective primary cancer screening test. 266 00:15:11,777 –> 00:15:12,411 They’re not aware 267 00:15:12,411 –> 00:15:15,714 of any scientific evidence to support the claims that thermography 268 00:15:15,714 –> 00:15:20,219 is a proven alternative to mammography. 269 00:15:20,219 –> 00:15:22,638 One of the greatest the greatest dangers from mammography 270 00:15:22,638 –> 00:15:25,674 is that those people that opt for that method think that, 271 00:15:26,792 –> 00:15:28,277 you know, mammogram might hurt. 272 00:15:28,277 –> 00:15:30,112 So let’s just take the heat. 273 00:15:30,112 –> 00:15:31,230 But they’re going to miss the chance 274 00:15:31,230 –> 00:15:35,034 of actually getting something early on by looking at just color patterns. 275 00:15:35,034 –> 00:15:36,502 They actually show a picture 276 00:15:36,502 –> 00:15:38,871 on the particular article of the difference between the two. 277 00:15:38,871 –> 00:15:40,639 So if you’re actually looking at, you know, 278 00:15:40,639 –> 00:15:44,243 mammograms here and thermography is here, the mammograms actually detecting, 279 00:15:44,360 –> 00:15:47,329 you know, this could be a calcification, this could be assessed. 280 00:15:47,329 –> 00:15:50,099 This could be an actual palpable lesion. 281 00:15:50,282 –> 00:15:52,968 Thermography is just showing heat changes. 282 00:15:52,968 –> 00:15:55,971 And that’s part of the problem that there’s really no standard. 283 00:15:56,221 –> 00:16:00,359 So when are mammography or when the radiologist looks at a mammogram film, 284 00:16:00,893 –> 00:16:03,662 the digital film, they’re looking to see what those changes are. 285 00:16:03,662 –> 00:16:06,832 They’re actually looking to see, okay, this might be suspicious going 286 00:16:06,832 –> 00:16:10,019 whether or not it’s a you know, a stage four. 287 00:16:10,252 –> 00:16:13,589 It might not be it might be something that we can follow a code three, 288 00:16:13,856 –> 00:16:17,059 you know, but they actually have regulatory standards. 289 00:16:17,059 –> 00:16:18,594 Thermo Graham doesn’t have that. 290 00:16:18,594 –> 00:16:21,797 And so one of the reasons that, you know, the FDA is concerned 291 00:16:21,981 –> 00:16:24,800 is the fact that, you know, people are being missed. 292 00:16:24,917 –> 00:16:27,086 They’re getting their thermo grams year after year. 293 00:16:27,302 –> 00:16:29,838 And we have patients that come in and say, well, I had a thermal gram. 294 00:16:30,289 –> 00:16:32,358 And so I have to tell them the same thing. 295 00:16:32,358 –> 00:16:33,926 Thermo Graham isn’t regulated. 296 00:16:33,926 –> 00:16:35,627 There’s no scientific evidence 297 00:16:36,862 –> 00:16:37,379 that the 298 00:16:37,379 –> 00:16:40,099 place that you go to may be different from some other place. 299 00:16:40,382 –> 00:16:45,504 The FDA has even taken a stringent steps to keep people from actually getting 300 00:16:45,504 –> 00:16:49,792 firmer grams by sending letters out because they are a regulatory commission. 301 00:16:49,792 –> 00:16:52,678 It’s not like they can actually do anything to stop them. 302 00:16:52,678 –> 00:16:55,280 All they can do is let them know that this is not right. 303 00:16:55,531 –> 00:16:57,383 This is not something that we support. 304 00:16:57,383 –> 00:16:59,368 This is not detecting disease. 305 00:16:59,368 –> 00:17:02,604 Women seek thermography because it’s painless. 306 00:17:02,905 –> 00:17:05,040 A mammogram isn’t that painless? 307 00:17:05,040 –> 00:17:07,009 It is uncomfortable. 308 00:17:07,009 –> 00:17:11,330 I think that uncomfortable is worth it when it comes to detecting something 309 00:17:11,330 –> 00:17:12,381 early. Exactly. 310 00:17:12,381 –> 00:17:16,285 You know, and everyone thinks this and it’s and it doesn’t take a long time. 311 00:17:16,285 –> 00:17:17,219 It really does. 312 00:17:17,219 –> 00:17:18,287 You go in, as Dr. 313 00:17:18,287 –> 00:17:20,489 Cathy said, you have your breast compressed. 314 00:17:21,090 –> 00:17:23,575 Your breast is compressed, but it doesn’t hurt. 315 00:17:23,942 –> 00:17:25,944 Some people think, well, my breasts are big. 316 00:17:25,944 –> 00:17:27,446 How are they going to see anything? 317 00:17:27,446 –> 00:17:30,382 Because it’s a regulated machine that actually can detect 318 00:17:30,382 –> 00:17:33,452 breast cancer in any size breast, big or small. 319 00:17:33,752 –> 00:17:34,970 It doesn’t matter. 320 00:17:34,970 –> 00:17:37,790 The bottom line is talk to your health care provider. 321 00:17:38,090 –> 00:17:40,642 Talk to your health care provider about what your risks are. 322 00:17:40,943 –> 00:17:43,912 Talk to your health care provider about what your concerns are. 323 00:17:44,096 –> 00:17:48,267 Because if it is a concern that I am doing something that’s going to hurt me less 324 00:17:48,267 –> 00:17:49,952 and that’s why I don’t want to do it. 325 00:17:49,952 –> 00:17:53,972 If you asked the facts, if not us, somebody else who’s going to recommend 326 00:17:54,173 –> 00:17:57,392 why a mammogram is better, why you should have mammogram? 327 00:17:57,509 –> 00:17:57,926 The facts 328 00:17:57,926 –> 00:18:01,463 behind the data behind the mammogram that we can actually go over with you 329 00:18:01,647 –> 00:18:05,868 so that you have a little more less reservation about having the mammogram. 330 00:18:05,868 –> 00:18:07,369 Two points. 331 00:18:07,369 –> 00:18:10,706 And it’s not to say that you can’t have a thermal thermal gram done. 332 00:18:11,156 –> 00:18:13,675 It’s just that it is not a stand alone 333 00:18:13,759 –> 00:18:16,945 test to detect breast cancer early. 334 00:18:17,162 –> 00:18:20,933 So for early disease, that’s the point, again, 335 00:18:20,933 –> 00:18:24,269 that we want that we want to make that some women like that. 336 00:18:24,319 –> 00:18:25,404 Dr. Green says, well, choose 337 00:18:25,404 –> 00:18:29,308 only to get it through thermography and then feel that they can rely on that. 338 00:18:30,542 –> 00:18:31,794 There’s a statement, since it can be 339 00:18:31,794 –> 00:18:35,097 used as an adjunct, tells me that there’s something abnormal on a mammogram. 340 00:18:35,297 –> 00:18:38,300 If you wanted to get a thermal gram to see if that area does 341 00:18:38,300 –> 00:18:41,687 light up, you can use it that way, but not as a standalone test. 342 00:18:41,820 –> 00:18:42,271 Exactly. 343 00:18:42,271 –> 00:18:47,359 Also, another concern women have is about radiation. 344 00:18:47,359 –> 00:18:53,248 So mammograms have slightly more radiation than a regular chest X-ray. 345 00:18:53,665 –> 00:18:54,650 But I read an article 346 00:18:54,650 –> 00:18:58,470 it says, but it’s less than the radon that you are exposed to in your home. 347 00:18:58,554 –> 00:18:59,154 Right. 348 00:18:59,304 –> 00:19:01,557 So so that’s another concern about women 349 00:19:01,940 –> 00:19:05,277 that so you have radiation all around you every day. 350 00:19:05,277 –> 00:19:08,514 It’s a it’s a constant just because you’re getting it right at that one time. 351 00:19:08,931 –> 00:19:12,467 But it is less than the overall radiation that you exposed to at your home. 352 00:19:12,684 –> 00:19:14,419 They also compared it to 353 00:19:15,771 –> 00:19:16,522 everybody 354 00:19:16,522 –> 00:19:19,224 is exposed to they said about three. 355 00:19:19,525 –> 00:19:21,326 There’s a there’s a unit of measurement. 356 00:19:21,326 –> 00:19:25,013 It’s called a milli let’s hang on me as a milli. 357 00:19:25,797 –> 00:19:30,385 But millisieverts that’s the that’s the 358 00:19:31,737 –> 00:19:33,989 that the unit of radiation 359 00:19:34,406 –> 00:19:38,093 a mammogram is point four the average exposure 360 00:19:38,093 –> 00:19:42,381 for a year for the average US citizen is three of these units. 361 00:19:42,865 –> 00:19:47,352 So they’re saying they’re comparing it to that, getting a mammogram done is 362 00:19:47,352 –> 00:19:51,123 it is like is if it’s like seven weeks worth of radiation 363 00:19:51,123 –> 00:19:55,043 but you get one time and that’s it and then it’s still less than what you’re 364 00:19:55,043 –> 00:19:56,929 being exposed to at your home. 365 00:19:56,929 –> 00:19:58,881 So it’s you’re not getting measured. 366 00:19:58,881 –> 00:20:02,634 You’re not going to start glowing in the dark when you get a mammogram then. 367 00:20:02,668 –> 00:20:03,318 Right. 368 00:20:03,452 –> 00:20:04,019 And the reason 369 00:20:04,019 –> 00:20:07,823 we really wanted to bring this out and talk about this in detail is, again, 370 00:20:08,240 –> 00:20:12,711 I think you all know who listen to us in previous seasons or who are our patients. 371 00:20:13,011 –> 00:20:15,564 We are heavy proponents of patient education 372 00:20:15,864 –> 00:20:19,585 and giving you information so that you can make an informed decision. 373 00:20:20,185 –> 00:20:22,037 We’re not here to tell you what to do. 374 00:20:22,037 –> 00:20:25,107 We’re just here to provide you with the information that we feel 375 00:20:25,340 –> 00:20:28,710 is grounded in science and fact and reproducibility. 376 00:20:29,061 –> 00:20:31,530 And so that is why we wanted to highlight 377 00:20:31,980 –> 00:20:36,201 the issue as it relates to thermography versus mammography. 378 00:20:36,451 –> 00:20:39,621 Again, as the article and the representatives of M.D. 379 00:20:39,655 –> 00:20:44,276 Anderson mentioned, even if a patient comes in with an abnormal, abnormal 380 00:20:45,060 –> 00:20:48,063 therm exam report, then they have to get a mammogram 381 00:20:48,063 –> 00:20:52,134 because you cannot base any treatment decisions 382 00:20:52,351 –> 00:20:56,538 or anything based on the thermal gram because it is not a regulated 383 00:20:56,755 –> 00:21:00,742 standard of care for the detection of early disease 384 00:21:00,959 –> 00:21:05,881 or for following any disease processes once they have been managed and treated. 385 00:21:06,231 –> 00:21:10,585 So this is to provide the information so that you can make an informed decision. 386 00:21:10,886 –> 00:21:15,140 It that mammograms are safe, the amount of radiation that you’re exposed to 387 00:21:15,140 –> 00:21:20,762 is minuscule in comparison to other things that we’re exposed to every day. 388 00:21:21,063 –> 00:21:23,732 Mammograms may be uncomfortable, but as Dr. 389 00:21:23,732 –> 00:21:28,287 GREENE mentioned, to be uncomfortable for a few seconds, getting a mammogram, 390 00:21:28,287 –> 00:21:30,439 that will help me to detect anything early 391 00:21:30,622 –> 00:21:32,941 that I can then get treatment for for cure. 392 00:21:33,442 –> 00:21:36,745 I’m okay with that, as opposed to having to deal with 393 00:21:36,979 –> 00:21:41,516 potentially a lifetime of disruption in my lifestyle 394 00:21:41,717 –> 00:21:45,687 or life span because of undetected disease. 395 00:21:45,921 –> 00:21:48,924 Again, we’re all women, we’re all of mammogram age. 396 00:21:49,191 –> 00:21:51,026 And so we’ve had mammograms. 397 00:21:51,026 –> 00:21:54,079 And so we understand that there may be some discomfort and some habits 398 00:21:54,112 –> 00:21:59,901 and some hesitancy, but this is something that we also do on a regular basis. 399 00:22:00,302 –> 00:22:03,772 I’ve had mammograms every year since I turned 40. 400 00:22:03,772 –> 00:22:06,391 I’ve never had an abnormal mammogram, thank goodness. 401 00:22:06,658 –> 00:22:09,678 I don’t know if my partners want to talk about you know, we understand 402 00:22:09,678 –> 00:22:12,481 that, you know, having a test can be anxiety provoking. 403 00:22:12,714 –> 00:22:16,318 And if you get that call back to say, well, we see something, we think we 404 00:22:16,318 –> 00:22:20,539 need to give some additional studies that can cause you some anxiety. 405 00:22:20,672 –> 00:22:23,091 Even as a physician, even as a health care provider. 406 00:22:23,358 –> 00:22:25,610 But that’s the point we’re trying to find. 407 00:22:25,610 –> 00:22:28,680 If there is anything there that needs to be addressed, 408 00:22:29,398 –> 00:22:31,900 find it early so that it can be taken care of. 409 00:22:31,917 –> 00:22:35,487 Do you all want to talk about your experiences in having to? 410 00:22:36,171 –> 00:22:38,357 Well, I got a call back on my last mammogram. 411 00:22:39,558 –> 00:22:40,225 And of course. 412 00:22:40,225 –> 00:22:41,877 Yes, you’re you’re nervous. 413 00:22:41,877 –> 00:22:43,979 You’re not sure. Is there something really there? 414 00:22:44,363 –> 00:22:46,882 But you have to keep in mind that 415 00:22:47,482 –> 00:22:50,452 that’s that was the reason for doing the test. 416 00:22:50,602 –> 00:22:53,372 I have people who say, well, they said my mammogram was abnormal. 417 00:22:53,372 –> 00:22:55,440 And then when they did everything, everything turned out fine. 418 00:22:56,391 –> 00:22:58,527 That’s that’s what we want. Yes. 419 00:22:58,827 –> 00:23:01,997 So that it’s not that the mammogram was wrong. 420 00:23:01,997 –> 00:23:05,784 It’s just that if there was something there, they would have found it early 421 00:23:05,784 –> 00:23:06,752 to take care of it. 422 00:23:06,752 –> 00:23:08,520 So that’s what you have to keep in the back of your mind. 423 00:23:08,520 –> 00:23:11,690 And that’s what I kept telling myself, right, that this is the whole reason 424 00:23:11,690 –> 00:23:14,843 that they if there is something there, then I want to know 425 00:23:15,077 –> 00:23:16,945 and I want to take care of it. Right. 426 00:23:16,945 –> 00:23:20,899 So yeah, we get nervous, we’re human and I want to take care of it early, right? 427 00:23:20,899 –> 00:23:23,001 I probably get in about three callbacks. 428 00:23:23,218 –> 00:23:26,938 It’s like every other year, every other breast, and a lot of reasons 429 00:23:26,938 –> 00:23:31,143 that you get callbacks or something is different is because of breast densities. 430 00:23:31,376 –> 00:23:34,312 Younger women have really dense breasts and some women have really, really, 431 00:23:34,312 –> 00:23:35,180 really dense breasts. 432 00:23:35,180 –> 00:23:37,849 So even with the compression, they see something. 433 00:23:37,849 –> 00:23:41,603 They’re not really sure what it is they want to do a as we say, a, you know, 434 00:23:41,603 –> 00:23:44,906 highlighted view of one particular area to see what that is. 435 00:23:45,140 –> 00:23:48,176 So first call back, you know, it was probably ten years ago 436 00:23:48,176 –> 00:23:52,130 and I was like, oh my God, you know, and I have a family history of breast cancer. 437 00:23:52,130 –> 00:23:54,483 So of course my mind went there. So I get it. 438 00:23:54,716 –> 00:23:55,217 I get it. 439 00:23:55,217 –> 00:23:58,170 My mom went there and I had already planned my double mastectomy. 440 00:23:59,154 –> 00:23:59,871 And I remember not 441 00:23:59,871 –> 00:24:03,842 telling my husband that I had to call back because he would go into overdrive. 442 00:24:03,842 –> 00:24:04,493 And so I was like, I’m 443 00:24:04,493 –> 00:24:08,597 just going to go get my additional study and everything’s going to be okay. 444 00:24:08,730 –> 00:24:10,081 Yeah, talk myself off the ledge. 445 00:24:10,081 –> 00:24:12,000 And it was. It really was. 446 00:24:12,000 –> 00:24:14,119 And so the next year, mammogram was fine. 447 00:24:14,119 –> 00:24:17,756 The year after that got a callback and I was like, okay, you know, and I 448 00:24:17,756 –> 00:24:21,092 and I and I, so I and I always tell myself that 449 00:24:22,194 –> 00:24:24,863 as a physician, you are still human 450 00:24:24,863 –> 00:24:28,083 and you still have those same feelings that your patients do. 451 00:24:28,667 –> 00:24:33,271 And so I get what patients feel when they think I never called back, 452 00:24:33,421 –> 00:24:35,607 but it was okay before, why do I have to do it? 453 00:24:35,607 –> 00:24:37,592 And I had the whole conversation in my head 454 00:24:37,592 –> 00:24:39,711 and then I left it myself because I thought, well, 455 00:24:39,711 –> 00:24:42,414 if I was the doctor listening to this conversation, I’d say 456 00:24:42,447 –> 00:24:45,300 because that’s what the mammograms force was designed. 457 00:24:45,300 –> 00:24:47,669 So I went in and I got my you know, 458 00:24:48,620 –> 00:24:51,273 I got my additional views and everything was fine the next year. 459 00:24:51,273 –> 00:24:52,557 Everything was fine too. 460 00:24:52,557 –> 00:24:56,912 And then I think the third callback back, I said, you know, I’ve got dense breasts. 461 00:24:57,262 –> 00:25:00,866 Maybe I need to do a different type of mammogram so I don’t get the callbacks. 462 00:25:00,866 –> 00:25:02,100 I don’t have the anxiety. 463 00:25:02,100 –> 00:25:04,853 Now, that being said, when I had my mammogram this year, 464 00:25:05,103 –> 00:25:08,073 because it’s on the off year and last year, 3D mammogram was normal, 465 00:25:08,240 –> 00:25:11,159 if I get a callback, I’m still going to have that conversation in my head. 466 00:25:11,510 –> 00:25:14,963 But I still will go back and do the additional mammogram if I need to. 467 00:25:14,996 –> 00:25:16,548 And you get your annual mammogram. 468 00:25:16,548 –> 00:25:19,100 It doesn’t keep it doesn’t keep me from being, you know. 469 00:25:19,668 –> 00:25:20,902 And so I think that’s the point 470 00:25:20,902 –> 00:25:24,873 that we really want to drive home, that a screening test, any screening test. 471 00:25:25,156 –> 00:25:29,060 But we’re highlighting mammogram as a screening test for breast cancer 472 00:25:29,394 –> 00:25:32,480 is designed to detect early disease. 473 00:25:32,731 –> 00:25:35,867 So you may get callbacks because they see something 474 00:25:35,867 –> 00:25:38,486 that is abnormal that requires additional study 475 00:25:39,020 –> 00:25:41,690 and that means it’s a good test. 476 00:25:41,990 –> 00:25:45,977 It’s a good screening test because it is doing what it is designed to do 477 00:25:46,228 –> 00:25:48,079 so that we don’t miss anything. 478 00:25:48,079 –> 00:25:51,449 And again, we want every woman 479 00:25:51,800 –> 00:25:54,052 to be informed about their decision. 480 00:25:54,569 –> 00:25:57,539 And I have patients who just refuse to get a mammogram 481 00:25:58,340 –> 00:25:59,791 and who may say they only want 482 00:25:59,791 –> 00:26:03,028 to get a thermo graham and if is abnormal, then they may do something. 483 00:26:03,628 –> 00:26:07,315 If that is your decision, I want it to be an informed decision 484 00:26:07,732 –> 00:26:11,186 so that you understand that the test that you’re choosing to have 485 00:26:11,836 –> 00:26:14,839 is not designed to detect 486 00:26:15,257 –> 00:26:18,443 an early process. 487 00:26:18,443 –> 00:26:22,314 It’s it’s just not it’s not regulated in a way 488 00:26:22,497 –> 00:26:26,451 that it can be reproduced so that from year to year to year, 489 00:26:26,635 –> 00:26:29,988 you can compare different images to see if there’s something changing. 490 00:26:30,739 –> 00:26:34,442 If there’s something abnormal seen on a thermo graham, 491 00:26:35,126 –> 00:26:38,580 then you have to get a mammogram as a next step in terms of imaging. 492 00:26:38,964 –> 00:26:42,467 So we just want you to have information to know 493 00:26:42,917 –> 00:26:46,705 what the facts are based on the these different tests 494 00:26:46,705 –> 00:26:49,257 and how they’re designed and how they’re used. 495 00:26:49,741 –> 00:26:53,211 So we in all of our episodes and with everything we do 496 00:26:53,211 –> 00:26:58,249 with our calling as being physicians, we want you to know your options. 497 00:26:58,466 –> 00:27:00,835 We want you to know yourself. 498 00:27:00,835 –> 00:27:02,904 We want you to advocate for yourself. 499 00:27:03,321 –> 00:27:07,909 But please, if you have questions or concerns, we want you to go to 500 00:27:09,077 –> 00:27:10,679 respected resources. 501 00:27:10,679 –> 00:27:12,947 We want you to talk to your health care provider 502 00:27:13,231 –> 00:27:15,567 or find a health care provider that you can talk to 503 00:27:15,567 –> 00:27:17,218 to provide you with information. 504 00:27:17,218 –> 00:27:21,656 You can also go to other resources, health departments on the Komen 505 00:27:21,656 –> 00:27:27,145 breast care hotline and Komen is with the K k OMI in. 506 00:27:27,145 –> 00:27:31,016 And that hotline number is 1877 go komen 507 00:27:31,349 –> 00:27:35,420 877gokom 508 00:27:35,420 –> 00:27:39,057 in cdcr also has a wealth of resources. 509 00:27:39,324 –> 00:27:41,609 We know everyone is googling and you can find 510 00:27:42,077 –> 00:27:46,881 you can find a resource for everything, but check the validity and the history 511 00:27:47,215 –> 00:27:50,452 of who you’re getting your information from so that you know, 512 00:27:50,452 –> 00:27:53,972 if is something that you can rely on it because your life depends on it. 513 00:27:54,389 –> 00:27:56,958 This is about your life 514 00:27:57,025 –> 00:27:58,910 and your quality of life. 515 00:27:58,910 –> 00:28:01,379 Should something be detected? 516 00:28:01,379 –> 00:28:03,298 Ladies, any other comments you have 517 00:28:04,282 –> 00:28:05,784 get screened? 518 00:28:05,784 –> 00:28:07,369 Yes, we can’t emphasize it enough. 519 00:28:07,369 –> 00:28:11,539 And even for those patients that come in and either decide not to have a mammogram 520 00:28:11,790 –> 00:28:14,759 or decide to have a Thelma gram, we’re going to give you the information. 521 00:28:15,026 –> 00:28:16,861 You know, we have to give you the information 522 00:28:16,861 –> 00:28:18,863 because it’s personal to us. 523 00:28:19,080 –> 00:28:22,584 You know, as women, as women that have had mammograms, 524 00:28:22,767 –> 00:28:25,336 as women that have known people that have gotten breast cancer, 525 00:28:25,336 –> 00:28:28,940 it is very important because it is treatable in its early stages. 526 00:28:29,240 –> 00:28:32,660 And so being that the mammogram will detect it in the early stages, 527 00:28:32,660 –> 00:28:35,063 we want people to get it. Yes, absolutely. 528 00:28:35,580 –> 00:28:39,300 So once again, we appreciate you taking your time to listen to us. 529 00:28:39,617 –> 00:28:43,471 We hope that this information has been helpful, has been informative, and we, 530 00:28:43,471 –> 00:28:47,942 again, always want to encourage you to be your own advocate for your health. 531 00:28:48,443 –> 00:28:50,879 Please share us with your family and friends. 532 00:28:50,879 –> 00:28:56,034 You can always visit our website at ptcobgyn.com. 533 00:28:56,034 –> 00:28:59,904 Listen to us wherever you get your podcasts and until the next episode. 534 00:29:00,121 –> 00:29:02,157 I’m Dr. Mironda Williams. I’m Dr. 535 00:29:02,157 –> 00:29:03,141 Deanna Guthrie. 536 00:29:03,141 –> 00:29:06,177 And I’m Dr. Karen Greene. Take good care.